Uh Ohh Mary Jo

[Gozu]

Liberal senator Mary Jo Fisher caught shoplifting again this time expanding the operation out to West Lakes announces she'll be quitting politics in August:

LIBERAL senator Mary Jo Fisher has quit federal politics.

It follows a second alleged shoplifting incident at an Adelaide supermarket which she claimed had resulted from a panic attack.

The new incident took place at Coles supermarket at West Lakes on Saturday afternoon and involved the alleged theft of goods valued at $60.40.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/mentally- ... 6404705026

[scoob]

Shocked that she just didnt become an independent

[westcoastpanther]

Shocked that she just didnt become an independent

[Psyber]

Her medical condition - discussed earlier - is still unstable and the recent medical advice was to reduce the stress in her life to help her recovery.
This is common advice when stress is impairing recovery, and quitting politics is the obvious way to reduce stress.

She is also aware that her ongoing condition will provide the "dark side" of politics with an easy target in her party.
They will continue to try to paint her as simply criminal, like their embarrassments who won't do the honourable thing and resign.
(Or won't be allowed to because of the numbers issue.)

Impulsive shoplifting is common in states of depression and hypo-mania.
So much so that magistrates are aware of it, and have been known to suspend court proceedings and suggest the accused get a medical opinion, even when neither the accused or their lawyer have raised the idea.

[Jimmy_041]

What is more disturbing is someone trying to make some mileage out of someone's mental problems

[The Sleeping Giant]

If she is that unwell and can't stop shoplifting, why is she waiting until August to quit? Retirement dollars?

[overloaded]

If you are going to get caught you might as well flog something decent instead of $60 worth of groceries FFS

[Psyber]

If she is that unwell and can't stop shoplifting, why is she waiting until August to quit? Retirement dollars?

TSG, I assume your cynicism is based on not having read about the illness, rather than just because you choose to be prejudiced out of political expedience.
Here is a link to save you the work of looking it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder
(I have met and talked to Mary Jo Fisher on one occasion and I am quite sure of the diagnosis.)

I've treated dozens of people with Bipolar Disorder over the years - its very nature is that people think they are fine, when to an observer they obviously are not.
It is a condition that can build up slowly without the patient noticing - often their family don't notice at first either.
It usually takes a few, or even multiple, undeniable incidents to get them to finally see it.
In this case it appears the second shoplifting incident got her to the point of being able to see it.

That is usually the biggest problem for the family and the treating doctor - getting the affected to see and accept treatment fully.
The sufferers themselves often can't see their mood swings and impulsiveness - it all seems normal to them - even when they get so ill they become delusional.
They may cooperate in treatment until they settle a little, then give up the stabilising medication because they think they are "fine now".

It can be a very severe illness.
I once worked in a hospital ward that had three guys who thought they were Jesus Christ in at the same time.

Overloaded - that is the point - if you are a criminal you pinch something worth pinching - the depressed and the hypo-manic usually take very little (often worthless trivia) on impulse.
Sometimes, if they are ill enough, their concentration is so scattered they don't even notice themselves doing it.

[overloaded]

WTF? You've got to be joking.
I can see it now in court, "I am sick and I didn't know I was doing it" FFS

[Psyber]

WTF? You've got to be joking.
I can see it now in court, "I am sick and I didn't know I was doing it" FFS

I did not say it applied in the Fisher case.
I said, "Sometimes, if they are ill enough, their concentration is so scattered they don't even notice themselves doing it."

"My client is sick and didn't know he was doing it." can and does happen, and sometimes does mean people are not convicted.

In the late 1970s, I had to supervise, for a while, the hospital management of some people who had been found not guilty, on mental health grounds, of murders they had committed:
One had acted on delusional reasons and killed several people in an Adelaide suburban area.
Another was a person with a sociopathic personality disorder, who was mentally competent and had an inheritance (from relatives who had raised him) in mind.
His lawyers managed to convince a jury he was not guilty, due to another type of disorder that would make him not responsible, despite senior specialist medical opinion to the contrary.
They did have another specialist supporting that defence.

[Gozu]

If she is that unwell and can't stop shoplifting, why is she waiting until August to quit? Retirement dollars?

Yep, I read on another forum that supposedly by staying on beyond the winter recess (August) that it will bump up her retirement money.

If only the hoi polloi could afford top notch QC's to get them out of shoplifting (twice) and an assualt and then get it spun in the media for them that they're the victim

[Psyber]

If she is that unwell and can't stop shoplifting, why is she waiting until August to quit? Retirement dollars?

Yep, I read on another forum that supposedly by staying on beyond the winter recess (August) that it will bump up her retirement money.
If only the hoi polloi could afford top notch QC's to get them out of shoplifting (twice) and an assualt and then get it spun in the media for them that they're the victim

But is it true that she gets any extra for that time? Anyone can post anything on a Forum.
The multiple murderer I mentioned was (IIRC) gotten off by a public defender - there wasn't much money in that family.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Are you that naive Psyber?

[dedja]

Not nearly as naive as Jamie Briggs ...

[fish]

Some leeway for the first offence but not the second.

[Psyber]

Are you that naive Psyber?

C'mon. Serious illness cannot be totally ignored for political point scoring.
The timing could as easily be sheer coincidence as timed for benefit, so unsupported assertions in a Forum can be fairly challenged.
(Especially when someone is seriously ill.)

I was talking to Mark Goldsworthy about this situation at a function recently.
He is very concerned about her well being, as he has known her from long before she entered Parliament.
And I'm experienced enough at assessing people to be confident his concern is genuine - and courts do accept my assessments.

I've worked in this area, treated people with this condition, and given evidence many times in cases where mental health issues have been relevant to responsibility.
The last time was a murder committed in Brisbane by a guy I'd assessed in Melbourne 2 years earlier, where competence to be tried was at issue.
My line was that he was delusional, but competent, when I saw him last in late 2005, but I agreed with his lawyer that could have changed in the two years since.

Generally, I take a fairly firm line that you have to be severely psychotic to be not responsible for anything that takes any capacity to plan.
And even being psychotic may not totally remove responsibility under law.

Impulsive behaviour due to weakened impulse control doesn't remove responsibility, but it is considered in deciding whether to record a conviction and what penalty is appropriate.
And one may well be applied for the second episode.

As I said, I am confident she is ill from what I saw when speaking to her back in December.
I am not saying she is so ill she cannot be held responsible.
However, courts do make allowances for impulsive behaviour in cases of real illness and trivial offences.

[The Sleeping Giant]

If she is that ill, why isn't she leaving parliament straight away? Why is she waiting until August?

p.s. I have no allegiance to any political party.

[Psyber]

If she is that ill, why isn't she leaving parliament straight away? Why is she waiting until August?
p.s. I have no allegiance to any political party.

I don't know for sure, but possibly so the party can work through the democratic process of electing a replacement candidate.
The Liberal Party has no central Caucus that can make an arbitrary decision and, quickly, put forward someone chosen by those few.

By the party constitution, nominations have to be called for first, and anyone in the party can nominate.
Then each nominee has to be given the chance to prepare to pitch his case to the membership's elected delegates and they will vote after hearing all their presentations.
I could put my hand up myself, as a member of the Libs, but I won't..

That is going to take several weeks, and while MJF is ill, it isn't potentially fatal - unless she swung towards depression and became suicidal.
(But she seems to tend towards "highs" rather than "lows", so that doesn't seem likely.).

[fish]

Maybe Craig Thomson should plead insanity - Psyber and Jimmy would come rushing to his defence!

[The Sleeping Giant]

If she is that ill, why isn't she leaving parliament straight away? Why is she waiting until August?
p.s. I have no allegiance to any political party.

I don't know for sure, but possibly so the party can work through the democratic process of electing a replacement candidate.
The Liberal Party has no central Caucus that can make an arbitrary decision and, quickly, put forward someone chosen by those few.

By the party constitution, nominations have to be called for first, and anyone in the party can nominate.
Then each nominee has to be given the chance to prepare to pitch his case to the membership's elected delegates and they will vote after hearing all their presentations.
I could put my hand up myself, as a member of the Libs, but I won't..

That is going to take several weeks, and while MJF is ill, it isn't potentially fatal - unless she swung towards depression and became suicidal.
(But she seems to tend towards "highs" rather than "lows", so that doesn't seem likely.).

Maybe you should run Psyber, as you are very good at skirting around the topic.

Mary Jo being a politician, I would say it's greed the reason for hanging around.